Until I began writing I didn’t realize that I spoke in commas. Commas allow me to link the disparate thoughts in my head and confuse my husband who doesn’t know exactly when he can join the conversation. I also love to sprinkle commas liberally throughout whatever I write, using their pleasing curves at will. Editors love me.
I should never have been possessed by this obsession. I was inoculated religiously in Catholic school to understand the judicious use of commas. Sister Leo Veronica was the punctuation warden, the veiled mistress of the comma, and we students bent to her will. How disappointed she would be to see the level I’ve descended to. How shocked and scandalized to witness my obsession with the comma’s seductive shape!
Apparently, I am not alone. Upon Googling “comma jewelry”, pages and pages of lusciously decorated commas were there for me to feast my eyes upon. Diamond comma earrings, jade comma pendants, interlocking comma necklaces, and erotic comma art was presented for my pleasure. (Ok, I made that last one up.) You get the picture.
While it is nice to know I’m not all alone in my comma habit, I suppose I should briefly point out the most common mistakes writers make when inviting commas to the page. This is going to be exciting, so hold on to your knickers.
When the sentence has three words or word groups in a row use commas to separate them. “I invited Dan, Kat, Steve, David, and Rosanne to my party.”
Separate a weak clause followed by a strong one with a comma. Omit the comma if the beginning of the sentence is stronger. “If you can’t marry me, let me know by noon.” “Let me know by noon if you can’t marry me.”
Use a comma to connect two separate sentences. “The hostess offered only wine and champagne, and he asked for scotch.” A semi-colon is utilized when two strong clauses are linked together. “The hostess offered only wine and champagne; he smashed his empty scotch glass in frustration.”
Use a comma when specifically identifying a person by name at the beginning of a sentence. “Laurie, the newest author on Indies Unlimited, lives in a magical forest.” “The newest author on Indies Unlimited lives in a magical forest.”
Can I finish now? Help me out, my friends, by adding a favorite comma pet peeve to your comment below. There are so many exciting rules to choose from and I just wanted to share the fun. (Notice no comma when using a conjunction).
If you don’t agree with my rules, well then do it your way. Just say no to intolerance and frolic with your commas as often as you want. What’s a couple of commas between consenting adults, anyway?
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L. A. Lewandowski is a Contributing Author for Indies Unlimited and author of the novel, Born To Die – The Montauk Murders. For more information, please see the IU Bio Page and her blog: cultureandcuisineclub.com. [subscribe2]
I love commas and have been told I overuse them, (see?) but I tend to put them in whenever I sense a break in the flow.
Also, the rules are different depending on which version of English we write in. For example, in Canadian English your string would be "…Dan, Kat, Steve, David and Rosanne". (no comma after David) It does make things very confusing. Fun post, Lois.
My understanding is that putting the "," after David is considered the "Oxford Rule" which I've heard is not looked upon kindly by the…ahem…good folks at Amazon. I stopped using it a few months ago.
Also, I believe the comma should be used in the (no commas used) sentence because the second clause has its own subject and can be a standalone sentence. Note my sentence does not have a subject after the and, therefore it does not have a comma while this one does.
Whew!
This is why editors earn their money!
I also have problems with apostrophes. I am possessive, and want to own thoughts and deeds, or assign them to others to control.
Yeah, this topic is starting to get ridiculous. The Oxford/serial comma is a style choice; as long as you're consistent, who cares? I would lean toward it, for reasons of occasional clarity, but it really is the individual writer's call.
Linda, it seems the good folks at Amazon are as confused as anyone else, though. This is one incensed group of writers in this Kindleboards thread!
http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php/topic,84700…
Howdy, and thank you for this post.
Linda Rae Blair wrote "I believe the comma should be used in the (no commas used) sentence because the second clause has its own subject and can be a standalone sentence." This is another case of style and, as Ms. Lewandowski wrote below, "You can do whatever you want, and refer back to a source to back yourself up."
The Chicago Manual of Style Online (16th edition, section 6.28), says this: "When independent clauses are joined by and, but, or, so, yet, or any other conjunction, a comma usually precedes the conjunction. If the clauses are very short and closely connected, the comma may be omitted unless the clauses are part of a series."
I'm off to google "punctuation jewelry" now.
Camille DeSalme
Thanks Camille,
I'm really excited by the diamond comma earrings myself. 🙂
Error: “I invited Dan, Kat, Steve, David, and Rosanne to my party.
Should be:
“I invited Dan, Kat, Steve, David and Rosanne to my party.
No comma before "and".
Tessa, technically, both are correct. If David and Rosanne are a couple, you wouldn't necessarily put a comma between them. But if they are not a couple, then keeping the comma is also correct. It's really just used to make sure they're separated.
It's actually correct if you are using the Oxford (or serial) comma, though.
And this is why I would tend to use it:
http://mlkshk.com/p/7KAS
(Seriously, click that link and you'll see why it's important, lol.)
You see, I agree. Yet, three sites on the internet said that the comma stays put. In fact, one female editor who has published a very successful grammar and punctuation book is very specific about this. Go figure.
I taught English at Chapman University for 12 years, and every textbook I saw left that comma out. Have you looked at E.B. White's Elements of Style?
The Elements of Style says the opposite, though: to use the serial (Oxford) comma. I'm not advocating either one, particularly (although the Stalin, JFK example I linked to is pretty persuasive, lol), and all I'd suggest is that someone remained consistent.
David,
You love that book!
Ha, I've been obsessed with it, lately; not least because I read a really good takedown of it after believing it to be the style benchmark all these years. Maybe I should post about that!
David,
Write the post defending your Bible!
Ok, this is where it gets sticky. You can do whatever you want, and refer back to a source to back yourself up.
From Wikipedia:Wilson Follett's Modern American Usage: A Guide (Random House, 1981), pp. 397–401
What, then, are the arguments for omitting the last comma? Only one is cogent – the saving of space. In the narrow width of a newspaper column this saving counts for more than elsewhere, which is why the omission is so nearly universal in journalism. But here or anywhere one must question whether the advantage outweighs the confusion caused by the omission …
The recommendation here is that [writers] use the comma between all members of a series, including the last two, on the common-sense ground that to do so will preclude ambiguities and annoyances at a negligible cost.[27]
T
Yeah, Lois I agree: that's why I would lean toward using it, as in the following sentence, which would lose its meaning if you omitted that last comma. (But I still don't find it egregiously bad if someone chooses not to use it.)
"They had a choice between croissants, bacon and eggs, and muesli."
I learned it the way Yvonne wrote it, too. But I do find myself sometimes adding that extra comma if it seems to "sound" better. What really gets me is finding a comma between the subject and verb. "The dog, wants to go out." I have found this countless times in books published in the UK. I can't say anything about newer books as I have not read much up-to-date writing from there, but it is common in books from a few decades ago and earlier. Our hostess for our writer's group was born and educated in England and she puts commas in some of the strangest places. They must have different rules there. I have even found a comma error in the Bible (New American Standard Version)! In one verse there is a semi-colon where there should be a comma, and two verses down there is a comma where there should be a semi-colon. One doesn't expect to find errors in the Bible, though I'm not sure why. They are published by humans just like everything else. 🙂
Yes, Diane.
As I stated in the post, I speak in commas. 🙂
Many sources I checked said that when it seems to fit due to normal speech patterns, or it helps clarify the meaning of the sentence, put it in. Whatever makes you happy!
My comma peeve is the splice! Leads to overly long sentence and much ambiguity. As for that serial comma, some style manuals are deleting them. AP has ditched them. Chicago retains them. I stick with them, because I prefer to err on the side of clarity. (PS: I love my magical forest, LA. It's filled with magical, correctly-placed apostrophes.)
Ah,the Oxford comma. 🙂 Brits and Canadians leave it out, the US puts it in. Potayto, potahto. In my world, although I hate it with a vengeance, I'll use it or not depending on intended nationality of readership.
I also read stuff aloud before finalising the punctuation, it helps to work out if there needs to be a comma or not. If in doubt I'll omit it rather than put one in, mainly because I find that less annoying to read.
Strunk and White say, "in a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction, use a comma after each term except the last. Thus write:
red, white, and blue
gold, silver, or copper
This comma is often referred to as the 'serial' comma."
One of my pet peeves is when folks do not put a comma between two independent clauses joined by a conjunction. I'm going to be a 'punctuation Nazi' and point out that you advocated both for and against this rule in your post. 😉
Exactly, LB.
Frolic as you want with your commas!
Another national difference. In the UK it's utterly wrong to put that comma in. In the US, wrong to leave it out.
LB, you have eagle eyes. I didn't put the comma after "erotic comma art." I suppose I was distracted by my own humor. 😉
My problem is a long break from professional writing (lost my voice when my husband died), followed by a foray into personal blogging which has plunged me into the '…' dungeon (where I should be put for using…overusing the '…').
Yup, personal blogging allowed me to fall into some bad habits, another of which is not proof reading. Working hard to overcome these. Guess I need to check my commas now…
😉
Anyway, Lois, on to the more crucial question raised by your post: is erotic comma art called the Comma Sutra?
Best comment. Mad props!
I'm comma happy, too. And I like ellipses (suck it Antrobus). MORE importantly, when and where is this party you speak of.
Tampa, Fla. We'd better make it soon, definitely before August.
I'll make comma casserole.
I got Boy George singing in my head now, all this comma-comma talk.
Dan: ellipse, m-dash, or n-dash? FITE!
Hey David, are you cooking? I'll have some of each, thank you. 🙂
Plus Lois's comma casserole. 🙂
David. Boy George … Comma, comma, etc. Thanks, man. Thanks for the ear worm. Heh.
🙂
Long live the cogent comma. Our grammar and communication continues to "dumb down." it seems spelling, grammar, and the proper use of punctuation aren't important in today's world. The AP style seems to be replacing the traditional, perhaps, old fashioned, rules of grammar and composition. There is no reason for every written communication to follow a journalistic style. Our children are taught that spelling is irrelevant. So sad… I ramble… The end is nigh.
I ramble, too. Thanks for stopping in!
Not speaking to the COMMA CONTENT…what a charming piece to find this morning, 2.21.12, in my e-mail box. It made me smile.
Commas seem to reflect an uncertainty of speech…at times…that halting or weaving back and forth before making a point, especially to a man.
Cool essay. Thanks!
Thanks, Kay.
I am so happy to read your nice comment whilst I drown my obsession in caffeine.
Have a great day!