Mostly for the benefit of our new readers and commenters, but also in the way of a gentle reminder to those of you who have been following a while, Indies Unlimited is a family-friendly, PG-13 type site. That doesn’t mean there is no suggestion of naughtiness, but it is important not to have the landscape cratered by F-bombs.
The vast preponderance of people who post and comment here are writers, but there are others as well. Writers tend sometimes to be dark, edgy people who may be prone from time to time to utter words such as those you may have heard your Dad say when he dropped a hammer on his toe, or got cut off in traffic, or saw your report card.
I am no paragon in this regard. I do make an effort to be sufficiently creative in my communication as to avoid the use of words or terms that might give offense to those with delicate sensibilities. I don’t always hit the mark. None of us is perfect. Neither am I suggesting we have to resort to dang, shoot, heck, or golly-gee. There is a middle ground.
I do ask that commenters try to be more artful in their expression than to simply rely on profane or abusive words. These words are crutches anyway—shorthand for a more expansive and fulsome expression of thought. On the whole, everyone here has comported themselves with a commendable sense of decorum. There have been very few exceptions. I do not wish to be cast in the role of a censor.
So, I’m just saying as nicely as I know how, “Let’s watch the potty-mouth.”
Well-said, Stephen.
We are better than letting swear-words take over.
And very nicely said, indeed — although I would love to know — oh, well, no. OK.
Oh dang it. 😉
Sorry Stephen, but what you wrote is a stinking pile of fewmets. Actually I wanted to say "Bullshit," but I'm trying not to be a "potty-mouth."
"Potty-mouth?" That is awful, I can't believe a grown man is using that term to other adults.
We are not rappers using foul language and attitudes to shock or prove our ignorance. We are writers and words, all words, are our tools – surgical instruments to be used in the furtherance of our stories.
My best writing teacher, Robert McKee said, "Write the truth" and language needs to be true to the character, the situation, and the story.
One of my major characters, detective Anna Perez, uses foul language for the first time in three books. It is not gratuitous when she shouts at her police chief:
“God damn you,” she screamed. “You're supposed to keep him safe. How could you fuck up like that?”
Her police detective husband is lying near death, shot three times in a botched undercover operation. Instead, should I have written,
"My dear Chief Chamberlain, you assured us that Danny would never be in any danger, that you would watch over him as a mother watches her new born child. How is it that he was left unprotected?"
If this puts me beyond the Pale here at IU – so be it, but it is insulting to be lectured to and told not to be a "potty-mouth," UGH!
Wow Neal. I think you misunderstood me. I do not suggest for a moment that people should hold back in any way in their writing. All I am asking is that people don't use such language in comments here.
I'm sorry if you feel that is too much to ask. The site is public and accessible to kids. If it makes you uncomfortable to restrain yourself even in making a comment on a blog, then by all means feel free to leave.
First, my name is Neil and not Neal. A little Freudian hostility, eh?
Since I never used unapproved language, other than in my comment, on the site you might have said something along the lines of, "If this shoe does not fit, please don't wear it." And, instead of shotgunning everyone, perhaps it would have been better to address the issuse specifically with those who have offended you.
Lastly, if you think you are protecting young people . . . sorry, but after 22 years as a high school counselor, it's the adults who need protecting.
I apologize for misspelling your name Neal. No hostility intended. Thanks for your advice about how to run my blog. I'll take it under advisement.
Ouch!! You're both right. I agree that foul language can be used appropriately as in Neil's example for that kind of writing, and inappropriately as on this blog. So come on guys, kiss and make up. We're all on the same side here.
Well said, Yvonne. 🙂
I agree. As writers, *no* words should be off limits, none. All language is fine and good and if I had my way, such phrases as "foul language" would be eradicated… but that would make me a censoring hypocrite, lol.
I do have to say this, however: every single time this issue has ever come up, in spite of asking very nicely on numerous occasions, not one single person has ever satisfactorily explained to me what makes any particular word "bad" or "foul". Not one. Outside of some vague puritanical impulse, that is.
But this is Stephen's site and he has all the right in the world to make the rules. And I've been very @#$%ing good so far, and expect to be reminded if I lapse into the odd profanity or two. 🙂
I'm only asking that people show a modicum of restraint in their word selection in comments. Seemed like a reasonable request.
Personally? I don't see anything wrong with your request. I think a lot of people think of Indies Unlimited like a magazine, and even perhaps a professional forum for authors. I highly doubt one would see the "f" word published in an advice column in Writers Digest or one of those other trade journals. As someone else here has already written, there's a proper time and place for certain language. This forum can be seen on a global level. I always want my best foot forward keeping that in mind. I would hope others do as well.
There is a time and place for the use of certain descriptive terms. I have read Neil's books and in that case his use of language does fit the story line and the characters, but it this setting I can understand Stephen's request for restraint.
I don't think Stephen was talking to you Neil, nor was he telling you how to write your book – which by the way, keep up the good work, but he was just asking for your help in making this a more family oriented situation.
I realize that kids today do have a potty mouth in most situations but when I can tell my grandkids to use some common sense when and where the choose to swear – guess what they listen.
Anyway guys, lets look at what the intention was here and not fly off the handle unnecessarily.
I just realized, looking back over my comments that I misspelled Neil's name twice, including the comment in which I apologized for misspelling his name.
I apologize again Neil. It has been a long day. There is room for disagreement and for spirited debate here.
I certainly do not mean to suggest that writers should pull their punches. It is important as Neil said to stay true to our characters and to the scenes.
No hard feelings at all on this end. 🙂
Wow. This surprises me. I have a foul mouth. I watch it around my daughter and when I am in someone else's house. It's a matter of respect. Neil, I love you brother, but you're picking a fight with the wrong guy. Hise is no puritan. He just wants everyone to feel comfortable. I am the top contributor on http://www.klrforum.com. It's a motorcycle sight. We watch our mouths because someone's kid may be looking over a shoulder. But it's really all about making everyone comfortable. When I ride my bike with a group, including my club, the rule is that you ride at the speed that the makes the slowest rider comfortable. Same deal here.
site…damn
Homonym! :p
Hey Steven – Score is 2 – 1 Steven. Oops, even up.
Your site, your rules. You've accomplished so much, so quickly and I give you props.
Too much travel, travel food, stress, and a lack of sleep . . . not a good combination.
But "Potty-mouth?"
Live long and prosper, Stephen!
Thanks Neil.
Stephen – I don't know why would anyone be bothered by your appeal, specially a word craftsman. I always felt that calling names is a lazy coverup for not being articulate and lacking knowledge. A writer's character using profanity is different from the writer substituting it for argument.
Yuzuk – I can't figure you out and hope not to be hit by a 2×4.
Thanks Jasha.
Levi – Reaching for my 2X4. If you can't figure me out after my post just above yours . . . Oh well.
Jasha, should we ever meet – be prepared to be greeted with at least a handshake, if not a hug. We are good, even when we disagree.
No problem with disagreement, as long as we stay respectful and, uh, agreeable. I think this is a great strength of Indies Unlimited, this disparate authors from diverse backgrounds thing we have going… we're not in lockstep, hopefully, and as adults can debate and argue 'til the cows come home, without hurt feelings. Hugs and handshakes all round. Peace.
This reminds me of a lesson I did my when I was teaching High School Art. The students were using some words that while fine hanging on the street corner were inappropriate in the classroom. They did not understand the difference or think that anyone was bothered by what they said.
I had each of them write every nasty word they could think of on a piece of paper and circle any word that would offend them if said by a stranger. That night I cross referenced each sheet, color coding all words that someone else found offensive. The students were surprised at the result.
I never had another problem with language. The point: There is a time and place for everything. Sometimes restraint is necessary.
I appreciate the comment and the story, AL. Thanks.
Al, that was a great strategy. We could use that with jokes and cultural issues as well. It can open a lot of eyes.
True!
My idol, Jame Bond, stated something like (I forget which book), "It's impossible for a man to get through a day without a battery of four-letter words." How can you argue with 'the man'? When I bang my thumb with a hammer, even Bond would be impressed, but I've managed to learn how to navigate the blogoshere without using them.
Well put, Christopher. Thanks.